Built to Last: Secrets to Keeping Romance Alive as We Age

Whether you’ve been with your significant other for one year or 50, you know that successful relationships aren’t always a bed of roses—both people have to work at it! How do we keep love alive and thriving, especially as we age, when our bodies, our work, our family situations, and our personal needs are changing?

In this special Valentine’s episode, you’ll hear from a veritable Whitman’s Sampler of Crow’s Feet writers, listeners, and relationship experts—all sharing advice about how not to lose that loving feeling, no matter how long you’ve been together—no matter how much life has thrown your way.

Featured guest contributors: Dr. Frank Powers and Dr. Gloria Horsley, Dr. Dale Atkins, Melinda Blau, Patricia Thornton, Joe Franklin, Kerry Kramer, Carole Olsen, Mel Schlesinger, Lisa Alexander, Beth Bruno, Catherine Dunn-Gilbert, J. Michael Flynn, and Mary McGrath. Guest readers: Jane Trombley and Rich Halten.

Want more from this episode’s guests? Visit the following links:

Dr. Gloria Horsley and Dr. Frank Powers:

 • Featured in the February 14 2024 Crow’s Feet podcast

 •Authors of Open to Love: The Secrets of Senior Dating

Dr. Dale Atkins:

 • Featured in the December 25 2024 Crow’s Feet podcast

 • Author of The Kindness Advantage: Cultivating Compassionate and Connected Children

Melinda Blau:

 • Author of The Wisdom Whisperers: Golden Guides to a Long Life of Grit, Grace, and Laughter

 • On Medium

Patricia Thornton, Ph.D.:

 • Featured in the January 8 2025 Crow’s Feet podcast

 • On Medium

Kerry Kramer:

 • On Medium

Carole Olsen:

 • On Medium

Mel Schlesinger:

 • On Medium

Lisa Alexander:

 • On Medium

Beth Bruno:

 • On Medium

Catherine Dunn-Gilbert:

 • On Medium

Mary McGrath:

 • On Medium

Share your thoughts with us:

NPR video on how to record and send your comments on the show. At the end, instead of sending to NPR, email your comment to crowsfeetpodcast@yahoo.

Transcript

Voice #1: “I really do have to understand that we are not the same person.

Voice #2: So you don't want to say things and you don't want to do things that you can't take back.

Voice #3: We are there for each other.

Voice #4: Follow your heart and cross your fingers.

Voice #5: And I'm glad we made it to the tough time.

INTRO: This is Crow's Feet, a place where we ponder the question, are these our golden years, or does aging just suck? Well, yes, getting older is not for the faint-hearted, but aging also brings wisdom and humor, a finely tuned perspective on life. In our podcast, you'll meet writers and others rethinking our later years, people who inspire us to reimagine our future.

Betsy Allen: Welcome to the Crow's Feet podcast. I'm your host, Betsy Allen, and in this very special Valentine's episode, we're going to talk about, you guessed it, love. Or more specifically, romantic love.

Sure, it's great and all, and it makes the world go around as the song goes. But it also puts some of us through the wringer. I'm a good example.

You see, when I look back on the demise of my first marriage, I think of dinosaurs. No, I'm not referring to my age or that of my ex-husband. I mean actual dinosaurs.

You might remember Steven Spielberg's hit movie, Jurassic Park. There were these quick and vicious dinos called Velociraptors. The most memorable thing about the Velociraptors was the way they would lurk in the shadows of the jungle, just out of sight.

And when you least expected it, when you were concentrating hard on the thing in front of you, boom, out they'd come from the side with their sharp claws and reputed pieces. So it was with the end of my first marriage. There I was, head down, concentrating hard on the things in front of me, my kids, my volunteer work, and my writing.

And then I was blindsided by events already in motion, culminating in my husband asking me for a divorce one balmy spring evening. I wasn't blameless in my 25-year marriage, but his request knocked me for a loop. It came in from the side, from the wild of the jungle, and it ripped me to pieces.

Later on, when it was time to pick up those pieces and seek another relationship, I wondered how I could keep from getting hurt again. How could I avoid the velociraptor effect? Could I do better next time?

A bit later in the podcast, I'll give you the answer to that. But first, let's consider, what makes a good relationship anyway? How do we keep love alive and thriving, especially as we age, when our bodies, our work, our family situations, and our personal needs are changing?

That's what this episode is all about. In it, we'll hear from a veritable Whitman's Sampler of Crow's Feet writers, listeners, and relationship experts. All sharing advice about how not to lose that loving feeling, no matter how long the two people involved have been together, no matter how much life has thrown their way.

Since we're looking for relationship advice, you'll be glad to know the doctors are in. We'll start with some words of wisdom from Dr. Frank Powers and Dr. Gloria Horsley, known as the Golden Dating Doctors and authors of the recent book, Open to Love, the Secrets of Senior Dating. Then we'll hear some great advice from psychologist, author, and relationship expert, Dr. Dale Atkins.”

Frank & Gloria (The "Dating Doctors"): “Well, what do you think about hard times for people?

We've worked with a lot of couples.

How do you help people get through hard times?

One of the things you have to realize that these are usually momentary. They're not going to last. So you don't want to say things and you want to do things that you can't take back, because those are the things that are lasting and create real problems.

So you've got to be careful about what you say when there's a momentary kind of reaction to something that you didn't like. So you've got to take it in and say, look, this is only momentary. We're in this for the long term.

So we don't want to say something or do something that's going to really affect the relationship badly. And I do think that that really hurts a relationship when people say things. That really in a sense is an over exaggeration of how they feel in the moment.

Absolutely.

So hang in.

Hang in there? I am. And be nice.

My mother always used to say, Be nice.

Don't get into heavy conversations when you're hungry.”

“Oh, yeah.

Or when you're angry.

Absolutely.

So face those hard times together because you know what?

In the end, it's a couple's world.

Yes. And you don't want to jeopardize a good thing just because of a momentary feeling.

Absolutely.

Okay. I love you.

Love you, too.

Dr. Dale Atkins: It's interesting to think about the question, what keeps partners together, because this is the eve of my 37th wedding anniversary. So as I reflect on the question, what comes to mind most prominently is trying to remember that my partner and I look at situations very differently. Even though we can agree on an outcome, our experience of the situation and how we deal with it, how we process it, is often so different from each other.

Trying to understand his perspective and hoping that he can understand my perspective helps me to have a bit more empathy for how he's dealing with something. So that's not easy. And as I said, we're approaching our 37th wedding anniversary.”

“But it's worth putting the work in because as much as I might think, why can't you see it the way I see it? Or how could you possibly think that? I really do have to understand that we are not the same person.

And the experiences that we have, even though they look like they're the same experience, are just not. Because the way I experience something is different from the way he experiences something. And if we can really keep that front of mind, that's helpful.

The other thing that's really helpful is to have a sense of humor and to just not take ourselves too seriously. Happy Valentine's Day.

Betsy Allen: I guess we all like to hear about specific things people do to make their relationships work. Of course, not every strategy works for everyone, but our next group of contributors, Crow's Feet writer and author of The Wisdom Whisperers, Melinda Blau, psychologist and dating anthropologist, Patricia Thornton, and Crow's Feet reader, Joe Franklin, certainly provide food for thought. Above all, they urge us to be creative and open-minded about the ways we interact with our partners to keep love alive.

Melinda: I'm Melinda Blau, a journalist and author who believes that if you're good at relationships, you're good at life. Of course, it takes two to make a relationship work. So I asked my partner why she thought we were still together after 31 years.

Her response? I've been a saint. Then she thought for a moment and added, and neither of us is nutso.

She was pushing 40 when we met and I 50. By then, we had each learned a thing or two from relationships that didn't last. We also came up with an ingenious strategy.

Forget the last five minutes. We use it to stop stupid, unfruitful arguments.

You know the kind I mean.

You were supposed to pick up milk. Didn't you read my text? Whatever the prompt, we're often running.

We might as well play a tape of the last argument. So, instead of rehashing the same old drama again, one of us changes the script by saying, forget the last five minutes, and the other one agrees immediately. It's foolproof if you both abide by the rules.

Whatever you're feeling, you have to let it go for now. Think of it as an adult time out. It takes restraint and a good dose of emotional intelligence.

But if you love your partner and want the relationship to last, just breathe in and ignore the part of you that wants to be right.

Pat Thornton: My name is Patricia Thornton. I'm calling about keeping love alive or challenges to keeping love alive. My boyfriend of four years and I have a living apart together relationship, and that has kept our love alive.

We have wings in our apartment in New York City, and I also have a small bungalow in California that I go to and revisit. But we're not glommed on to each other. We have our independent lives.

We are monogamous, and we are in love. But we are independent people, and we feel like this is working for us. In the apartment, we have our own bedrooms and our own bathrooms.

And then I have my California house that I created during COVID, which I'm calling you from right now. I think leaving is freezing cold in New York City. But anyway, this is what's kept our love alive, and it's challenging sometimes.

Sure, I miss him, but that's our reality. We talk all the time, but we do have our separate living spaces, and that's exciting.

Joe Franklin: Hello, I'm Joe Franklin, and I live in Manhattan Beach with Nancy, my wife of 35 years. The guests at my nephew's wedding were asked to write a note to the bride and groom sharing what makes a successful marriage. I wrote only two words, the blind surrender.

By this, I meant surrender yourselves to each other, and you will find depths of trust and love that will help sustain your love as the years and life experiences go by. Your trust is deeper. Your love is deeper.

You learn to have each other's back. You learn that a gentle squeeze of your hand is a subtle message that you may be driving too fast, or you are perhaps being too unfair with your child, with discipline or advice. And let's not make a fuss about how your food was repaired at the restaurant.

It's the spoken words that usually cause hurt and pain in a relationship. By caring and trusting enough that you don't have to say everything that you may want to say, or you don't need to win the argument, is an expression of profound love. The blind surrender will sustain your love through the good, bad, and sad times, which all of us will undoubtedly face.

Oh, and a good laugh every now and then is always fun, too.

Betsy: You know, when it comes to love, it seems like managing expectations is just as important as planning our actions. It often comes with the territory of aging. When you've been around the block a few times, you tend to become less idealistic and more realistic.

In the next segment, our contributors talk about how their thinking on this aspect of love has evolved and developed over time. Here are Crow's Feet writers, Carrie Kramer, Carol Olsen, read by Jane Trombley, and Mal Schlesinger, read by Rich Halton.

Carrie Kramer: It's all about expectations. On our first Valentine's Day together in 1969, I showed my college boyfriend how much I liked him by baking him a heart-shaped cake. It was a masterpiece.

I expected him to love it and me for making it. But instead, he left it to rot and mold on the top shelf of his closet until he moved to another dorm in June. What a letdown.

That college boyfriend became my fiancée two years later. I expected to go to a nice restaurant to celebrate and talk about our wedding plans while gazing at my sparkling new diamond. But instead, we went to a fraternity intramural baseball game.

That was a banner. When he took me to New Jersey to meet his parents before we got married, I expected to see his second home near the beach he had been telling me about. It turned out to be two hours away and was a rundown duplex.

Then I expected to take a ride on his Triumph motorcycle, which he was excited about, except that his dad sold it to pay for his next semester's tuition. What I didn't expect was that his best friend would call and ask for his Opel GT sports car to be returned, as he only loaned it to him to pick me up from the airport. My dreams were turning into nightmares, but we did get married in 1972.

Our wedding was beautiful, and I expected our reception to be just as nice. You can imagine how disappointed I was that the band my mother hired was a polka band, and the only pop song they knew was Proud Mary. I cry whenever I hear the lyrics, rolling on the river.

However, something that far exceeded my expectation was the birth of our two children a few years later. I never knew I could love anyone this much. I loved my husband even more when I saw him as a dad to our daughter and son.

No one expected our marriage to last. Huh, but we fooled them. We celebrated 53 years together last summer.

We have two wonderful adult kids and six precious grandkids. And the best part? We are growing old together.

You just never know what to expect. So, my best advice to you is to follow your heart and cross your fingers. Happy Valentine's Day.

Carole Olsen (read by Jane Trombley): My husband and I have been together for 32 years, and our relationship has changed over time. Once a very romantic relationship has gotten to be a loving friendship that goes with our lifestyle now. My husband has had health issues, and he knows I am his partner through thick and thin.

We are there for each other.

That is the most important thing at this point in our lives”

Mel Schlesinger (read by Rich): My wife and I just celebrated our 47th year together, and on February 2nd, we celebrated 45 years of marriage. We hit a rough spot back in 1991 and 92, but we worked our way through it. It would be easy to say that our marriage has worked because, well, she's so accepting of my weirdness, and while true, that doesn't explain the success of our relationship.

In the end, I believe that our relationship works for three reasons. First, we talk about everything and every decision. We are great at beating a dead horse, but we always end up on the same page because we talk everything through.

Second, even before living together, we talked about our expectations. I knew what she wanted in a partner and she knew I was a flake. If she was looking for somebody who would get a good job and then stay put, that probably wasn't me.

She knew that I was never money-motivated. If unhappy, I would quit any job regardless of income, and my life had to be designed to accommodate that approach to life. Third, and most importantly, we make sure to say I love you multiple times daily. Even on days when one of us doesn't feel like it, we still say those words. In the end, it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. Oh, and we always kiss each other good night.

Midpoint Break: You're listening to Crow's Feet Life As We Age, because today we're older than we've ever been, and younger than we'll ever be again. Let's talk about it. If you like what you hear, please become a supporter.

Click the link in the show notes, or go to Crow's Feet lifeasweage.com and find the Support Us button in the main menu. Thanks for becoming part of the Crow's Feet community.

Betsy: The Crow's Feet Podcast, where we're opening our valentines from folks who know a thing or two about love. There are so many variables at work in a successful relationship. So many ingredients in the unique recipe that works best for the people involved.

But there are also universal aspects, those pieces of good advice for everyone. The actions and attitudes that will increasingly enhance any relationship as time goes on. Here, Crow's Feet writers Lisa Alexander, Beth Bruno, and Catherine Dunn Gilbert, as well as actor and writer J. Michael Flynn, share their thoughts on the enduring value of communication, on humor, keeping a sense of self, and much more.

Lisa Alexander: In thinking about what makes a good relationship, I've been married for 31 years, and my husband's a divorce attorney. So he's seen it all. And one of the things he always talks about is how the biggest thing that he notices about couples who aren't making it, is that they don't communicate.

So he's really big on communication. And at least once a day, he'll either text me or call me during the day, just to check in, just to check up. Sometimes it's annoying, but I know why he's doing it and I appreciate it.

Another thing that we always do is try to make each other laugh. We have a lot of history together, so we'll quote an obscure movie line or just some inside joke, and we'll be laughing and everyone else in the room won't know what's going on, but it's just a little joke between us. And if I didn't have him, nobody would get any of my jokes.

It would be awful.

Thank you.”

Beth Bruno: It wasn't until I learned to love myself that my marriage found its footing. As long as I needed my husband to fix me, complete me, make me feel better all the time, things could get pretty rocky. Asking someone else to meet all of our emotional needs is a lot of pressure.

He tried, but when my needs were overwhelming, my husband would just shut down. As I learned to meet my own needs, our relationship improved by leaps and bounds. Of course, a relationship should meet some or most of our needs for companionship, partnership, intimacy, and friendship.

If it doesn't, then why bother? But if a relationship doesn't meet all of your emotional needs, this is a perfect opportunity to learn to show up for yourself. The more I care for myself, the better my marriage becomes.

I no longer feel resentment towards my husband if he is unable to meet my needs at any given moment. When you no longer place unrealistic expectations on your partner, it is easier to love them. For me, it all began with learning to love and care for myself.

Now, our marriage has an ease that it never had when I was still needing my husband to fill the hole that can only be filled.

J. Michael Flynn: Hi, my name is Mike Flynn. I didn't get married until I was 50, so I needed to get it right the first time, and I think I did. We're on year 22 now and going strong.

I give most of the credit to my wife, which I've learned is a very smart thing to do. Other than that, I have two basic principles I use when the tranquil sees of our love get a little turbulent. The first is this, I could be wrong.

Never seems that way at the time, but if I just admit that possibility to myself, it makes me remember that no opinion I have in any moment is as important to me as she is. The second one is laughter. Well, it's true that my beloved sometimes irritates or noises and frustrates the bejesus out of me.

It's also true that she makes me laugh every single day. And when it comes right down to it, I'd much rather laugh than stay upset. So at my age, I wish I could count on 22 more years with this woman. But at this rate, I'll take anything I can get.

Kathy Dunn-Gilbert: My name is Kathy, and here's my tip. Never go to bed angry. Never.

Well, whenever you can help it. Never say words you might regret. You can never really take them back.

They will always be there. True love is sometimes putting your partner's needs above your own, and one day they will do the same for you. Always, always keep talking to one another.

Keep communication open. Be open to adventure. Last year at the age of 66, we worked together on a ship returning from the Arctic, something I never imagined I would ever do.

Never, they never. Most important of all, have a sense of humor.

Without it, you are doomed.

The number of times my husband has lifted me from a dark time, and believe me, we have had more than our share. By making me smile is more than I can count, and those moments have been life-giving and relationship-saving at the same time. So there you have it.

Some keys to what will be 47 years of domestic bliss, a mixture of monotony, mixed with excitement, but very few regrets.

Betsy: Whatever we do to make things work, it's important to keep our eyes on the prize. Here Crow's Feet writer Mary McGrath shares a short poem she wrote years ago to her beloved. A little reminder of why we put all the work into our relationships in the first place, and why it's so very worth it to keep love alive.

Mary McGrath: Eric and I have been together both to 35 years, and we've shared so many ups and downs over the years, but I would like to read a poem that I wrote which appeared in Good Housekeeping back in 1995, and it's entitled Fireworks. I fell for you in summer when July's hot breath panted upon us when twilight's sweat dripped and cooled, then begged for more. I fell for you in summer when the blue pools of your eyes invited me to twin.

I dove and lapped your presence until I could stroke no more. And now in winter, I find you banded and embroidered to my hand. The future paved before us boldly in gold.

A road unshared, awaiting to unfold. I think life is filled with possibilities, especially in the incipient stages of any relationship. And I'm glad we made it to the tough times.

Betsy: As we near the end of this episode, I'm gonna tell you the rest of my story. After my divorce, when the time was right, I decided to give online dating a shot. It was terrifying, but also kind of exciting.

And eventually, I met the man who had become my husband, someone who had also been married before. We've been together now for nearly 14 years, 12 of those as a married couple, and now we're facing retirement. What are we doing to flip the script and keep our love alive?

Well, I learned that the silver lighting of second or third marriages is that you've already seen what works and what doesn't. And you also see what happens if you ignore the things that don't work for too long. My husband and I have tried to correct our past mistakes, to be truly conscious of what came before and to do better, to listen more, communicate more, cultivate mutual interests, and keep romance in our lives every day through physical closeness, holding hands, hugging, kissing, all the other good stuff you're really never too old for.

Above all, I'm trying to keep my head up and my eyes open, not taking my husband, our relationship, or our life together for granted, staying aware of what's around me, on the lookout for shadows in the dense brush of life. Sure, when it comes to love, there's still kind of a jungle out there, but I think I just might have figured out how to keep those dinosaurs at bay.

To put a bow on our episode, we thought we'd share some final advice from two folks you already know, a couple who were truly built to last, keeping their love alive for an incredibly long time, 77 years to be exact, the longest marriage in presidential history. We leave you with the words and loving thoughts of President Jimmy Carter and his beloved wife, Rosalynn.

Interviewer: What advice do you have for people who want to make it last?

Jimmy Carter: First of all, choose the right person to marry, and then give each other plenty of space. Let the other person have a full life in the way they choose, and help when you can, share things a lot.”

Rosalyn Cater: And do things together. We're always looking to do things, to find things we can do together, like fly fishing, and bird watching, and just going out to the pond.

Jimmy Carter: And every night, we try to make sure we are completely reconciled from all the arguments during the day when we go to bed.

So never go to bed angry.

BothL Try not to...Try not to.

Betsy: We wish you all love in your life, and a very happy Valentine's Day. You've been listening to the Crow's Feet podcast. I'd like to thank our guest contributors.

Thanks too to our Crow's Feet podcast team. Nancy Peckenham, our founder, Rich Halton, our sound editor and designer. Nancy Franklin, our marketing and public relations expert, and the Crow's Feet writers and editors who make up our team.

Lee Bench, Melinda Blau, Jean Felderson, Jan M. Flynn, and Jane Trombley.

Closing Song: "Let Me Call You Sweetheart"